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by jwstl47 from Overland area

Last Post 312 days, 5 hours Ago


Parking in St.Ann
Dec 17, 2007 | 11:06 AM
Category: News
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Here's a story that maybe Elliot Davis would look into........Saturday night my daughter went to a friends house in St.Ann.She parked on the street across from her friends house ( just like she has always done) and they went to a birthday party in St.Charles in another vehicle.When they returned at about 11pm,my daughter was informed that her car had been towed because there was more than two inches of snow on the ground.Now if this street was marked or posted as a snow route I would not have a problem with this.But,it is not posted anywhere along the street.After doing some research into the city of St.Ann I have found out that anytime there is two inches of snow on the ground every street in St.Ann is considered a snow route.And any car parked on the street is subject to towing.The part that makes me mad is when we contacted the towing company on sunday morning they informed us that we could not even get the car back until monday morning and that meant two more days of storage charges at 20 dollars a day.Altogether it cost me $135.00 to get my daughters car back.My question is,How are people that dont live in St.Ann supposed to know about these kinds of ordinances if you dont live there?
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Member Comments Total Comments: 19
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Cuteypops read my blog view my photos
Dec 17, 2007 | 12:26 PM

Good question call the St. Ann mayor and complain.
jwstl47 read my blog view my photos
Dec 17, 2007 | 12:37 PM

I have written e-mails to the Mayor and city adminastrater.I am waiting for responses which I doubt will ever come.
Speedy62269 read my blog
Dec 17, 2007 | 12:57 PM

St. Ann's Code of Ordinances really isn't too user friendly. Your daughter was probably written up under the Stopping/Standing/Parking Prohibition 365.050. Now, this doesn't have much relevance to her ticket - it should've been written under Parking Prohibitions Under Certain Weather Conditions 365.150.

That being said, Section 375.050 "Procedures on Arrest" doesn't include anything pertaining to weather - just everything else. And, in addition, St. Ann's ordinances require that a No Parking Required Signs be up - see 365.060. Unless I am totally ... totally dense - they don't even have the proper roadmap for writing such a ticket. Your only problem is they have their own courts and I believe the judge is appointed by Mayor Tim James. Shoot another email to Mayor Tim James at tjames@stannmo.org.

I would contact Elliott Davis to see if he interprets their laws as I did. If it hits the news then St. Ann loses. My question would be ... was your daughters car parked at that location before 2 inches of accumulation were present and was her car gone within the allotted timeframe the city allows under most circumstances? (usually 24 hours)?
jwstl47 read my blog view my photos
Dec 17, 2007 | 1:04 PM

She parked her car at about 8pm.So yes, I am assuming there was already two inches of snow on the ground.There were several cars parked on the street but not all of them were at her friends house.They all were towed as well.
Speedy62269 read my blog
Dec 17, 2007 | 1:27 PM

It would be nice to follow-up on these other owners too and see if they got "hit" with the same bill as your daughter. In a City the size of St. Ann, if you "know" someone then tickets will get fixed and you need to make sure that everyone got stuck with the same tab.

Call Elliott Davis - he'll look into it for you...because...after all, "You Paid For It" (dearly)!
jwstl47 read my blog view my photos
Dec 17, 2007 | 1:35 PM

yes it is all about who you know in St.Ann.One of the neighbors cars got towed and he got it back the same night.
Speedy62269 read my blog
Dec 17, 2007 | 1:37 PM

Well, if he got it back the same night and wasn't ticketed - you need to have him call City Hall. But, if he still got ticketed and towed - he was just lucky enough to pick up car in a convenient & timely manner.
connie3212 read my blog view my photos
Dec 17, 2007 | 1:43 PM

Hey there Speedy, how the heck are ya? You are always so full of great information. where do you get everything? I know we can count on you always. :)

That really sucks for your daughter. I have a friend in St. Ann. I am going to email her and tell her about your problem and see if she has ever heard of such a thing. I think that is stupid. If there are no signs posted how in the hell are you supposed to know that? I would be doing more than just emailing....call 24/7 around the clock. Good luck. Hope you get your money back.
Speedy62269 read my blog
Dec 17, 2007 | 1:51 PM

Hey Connie - I created/designed/edited city ordinances for 12 years. Ordinances in general are easy to comprehend but tougher to enforce. The Municipal Code Corporation out of Tallahassee Florida has a great website (www.municode.com) that really educates one with lots of time on their hands. LOL.

As for getting a refund - the actual cost of the tow won't be refunded. The tow truck driver (company) had to incur labor and equipment costs. But, the City (in their best interest) should "rip" the ticket up.

When we visit other communities we are not aware of their "picky" ordinances. There's one in Northern Michigan that I tried to get our city to implement for nearly 8 years - but wouldn't. It states, NO PARKING on any public street between the hours of 3am and 6am - all violaters will be fined and towed. I love that law - this keeps cars off the streets and the street sweeper can clean anytime they want between 3-6am.

Connie3212: Any news on the I-64 ISP Trooper crash? I know you have to stay somewhat "neutral" but does it seem to be swept under the carpet already?
connie3212 read my blog view my photos
Dec 17, 2007 | 2:15 PM

Speedy, I have not heard ANYTHING on it and I have been watching. To me it seems swept under the carpet already which is a shame. Hopefully I am wrong about this. But you know how I feel. LOL

I emailed my friend to let her know about the 2 inch snow ordinance. It will be interesting if she knows anything about it and she lives in St. Ann too.
connie3212 read my blog view my photos
Dec 17, 2007 | 3:34 PM

Just got an email back from my friend in St. Ann. She has heard of the ordinance but didn't know how much snow it took to get the cars off the street. She also did say that when the snow plows get working they can really do a number on cars left on the street, meaning really packing them in...so with that said, it sounds like all cars aren't towed.
Speedy62269 read my blog
Dec 17, 2007 | 3:43 PM

I'm figuring they have to allow the "grandfather effect". So, if jwstl47's daughter was there before it started snowing or even flurrying then she should be "grandfathered" into her parking spot for the maximum allowable time for onstreet parking. This time period is usually 24 hours then you have to "move" your car even a foot is acceptable. So, if I were the judge/jury - I'd measure the amount of snow underneath her car to see if it's 2 inches or more. If not, she's not guilty. If there's 2 or more inches it then proves that she parked there with more then 2 inches on the ground therefore will pay the applicable cost of visiting St. Ann.
jwstl47 read my blog view my photos
Dec 17, 2007 | 3:45 PM

Thank you all for the responses so far.They have been very enlightning.I also had a phone conversation with the assistant to the Mayor of St.Ann.He told me that 20 cars were towed Saturday night.I asked if that was all the cars parked on the streets in St.Ann that night.He could not give me an answer to that and also thought it was quite amuseing that I called to complain.He said and I quote,"you are the only person to complain about this ordanance" Somehow I find that hard to believe.He also went on to say that anybody who writes on a blog and does NOT give their full name should not be believed.I tried to explain about security issues on the internet and again he thought it was kind of funny.The reason I say that is because he was laughing at me.As Elliot Davis would say.Let him know how you feel,his name is Matt Conley. 314-428-6801. Afterall, you paid for it.
Speedy62269 read my blog
Dec 17, 2007 | 3:56 PM

jwstl47: His statement that 20 cars were towed doesn't make it "right" or legal. You may want to bring up my prior points (ordinance #'s) and see what he says. They don't hold much backbone and would probably be overturned in a "regular" courtroom unlike a City Court where things get skewed (screwed) alot.

His comment on a "blog" means that he assumes if you actually leave your name on it - it's valid. LOL - not. Blogs are usually for fun but in this case very informational. There are certain things one should know when visiting cities such as...in St. George MO - one used to be harassed for doing nothing - now that has changed thanks to the young man with the dashcam. Will St. Ann want to be known for their "snowfall windfall"? Again, if you can prove less than 2 inches of snow beneath your girls car then I think you can get out of it. Then, ask Mr. Conley for full reimbursement of towing your car - illegally per St. Ann Ordinance 375.050 - Procedure on Arrest (didn't cover 365.150) and they have an ordinance that states the City must abide by ... 365.060 - signage required.

Good luck.
rosie read my blog view my photos
Dec 17, 2007 | 6:23 PM

wow that sucks....
connie3212 read my blog view my photos
Dec 17, 2007 | 7:58 PM

Wow, I hope you can get this squared away. If I have time I will give him a ringy dingy tomorrow. Thanks for the number.
Speedy62269 read my blog
Dec 17, 2007 | 9:46 PM

Yeah....bring it!
LadyCardFan read my blog view my photos
Dec 17, 2007 | 10:31 PM

From another point of view here. My son works for a company that tows illegally parked vehicles. His company contracts with various businesses, not cities, but before they tow they must have a police officer sign off on the tow. So, depending on who St. Ann contracts with could depend on who you need to contact.

The company my son works for will check the lots they contract with (1000+ business lots) for violators. They abide by the State Laws and not the laws of the city they are towing in. But, they don't tow until the police sign off on the violation.

So, in effect, call the tow (impound) company and ask for a copy of the tow order. Get the officers name and get a copy of his/her report. The city doesn't make any money off these tows . . . so you'll have to try to talk to the impound company to get your money back.

Most likely you'll waste more time in investigating than it is worth, but the satisfaction could be worth it.

Whew, glad it wasn't my son that did this, lol . . . he and the company tow truck was stuck at home that night . . . couldn't get out our hill.
mr_wildflower read my blog view my photos
Dec 18, 2007 | 5:20 PM

Down at St. Ann City Hall they are probably singing.....

I'm dreaming of a white christmas.....

Sad how they get their money
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jwstl47

This pic is what I like to call my happy place.I cant wait for spring to get in full bloom and get back up to the woods.Just sitting in the middle of all that nature really gives you time to think and reflect on things.I have had deer walk within ten feet of me while sitting in the woods,what a great feeling to be at one with nature.

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