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Deb's thoughts

by dwheeler6201 from South St. Louis

Last Post 27 days, 20 hours Ago


Monday will be the first day of class for St. Louis Public Schools. Sunday, district leaders visited a dozen churches in the city to rally the community to help students get to school.

"Many of the countries we compete against, the kids go to school 5-and-a-half days a week," Interim Superintendent Dr. John Wright told the congregation at Greater Mt. Carmel Baptist Church. "They have a longer school year. Most of them speak multiple languages."

The above was taken from an article on another news site.

My question is:  Would these same churches be allowed to show up the first day of school and stand on the steps or in the lobby and pray for the students, teachers and administrators?

The St. Louis Public Schools have done this for at least the last 4 years.  Usually it is a predominantly black church although they did go to a Vietnamese church last year.

 

I guess my problem with this is the fact that religion is so taken out of the schools, I mean we have "Winter Break", Spring Break" instead of Christmas or Easter Breaks. Kids can't sing Christmas Hymns, only Holiday songs.

If we have removed every mention of religion from our schools, what gives the State the right to go into a church?

I am not a member of any of the churches involved in this; but I believe that laws are for the same for everyone.  If the law says that my child/church can not pray in school, than the school should not be allowed in church.

I honestly don't know if I should put this under "NEWS"  or "POLITICS", I guess I'll go with news.

What are your feelings about this?



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Member Comments Total Comments: 21
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mr_wildflower read my blog view my photos
Aug 18, 2008 | 6:50 AM

You have to remember that it was not the Churches that took the prayer out of school nor was it the school that pushed for this.... It was a small percentage of our population that wanted this and our government caved......
Our district still says the pledge every morning with the words under god and a group of kids at the high school meet every morning on their own and pray before school.......
I see nothing wrong with the school officials going to church and interacting with the community....

dwheeler6201 read my blog view my photos
Aug 18, 2008 | 8:08 AM

I would love to see the church and schools interacting with each other, but when it is only a 1 way street - I think that is wrong.

I think if the schools are going to go into the churches, then they should invite the churches into the school.

I don't remember ever praying in school, I do remember when pray was taken out of the schools. When I was a kid our girl scout and boy scout meetings were held in the church next to the school. We interacted with the church all the time, and the church would help with Christmas Shows at the school.

I don't think I said the pledge after kindergarten, at least not in school, we did say it before certain programs at church.

It isn't that I am against this, I just think it should be a 2 way street.

IneedUrHelp read my blog
Aug 18, 2008 | 10:39 AM

You cannot celebrate or give time to one religion without celebrating or giving time to all of them. This situation has come about in the name of equal rights. It’s a result of believing that everyone has to be treated equal on every level and we did it to ourselves. I don’t know if it’s good or bad, but its equal and that seems to be everyone’s only concern.

I think before a lot of the changes that were put in place to assure equal rights, we had to accept differences and not be threatened or feel slighted by people showing thiers freely. Course there were a lot of things that were viewed and treated on different levels like status, race, and education. I remember when it was the polite thing to stay quiet while others lived their opinions and beliefs and I remember being taught to worry about myself and who I should be rather than whom everyone else should be. Now it’s impolite and politically incorrect to express your opinions and beliefs if they are do not originate from a minority, not the same as everyone who can in anyway see or hear you, are unhealthy, unattractive or represent something controversial. We talk about diversity but most times we grudgingly accept it only when exactly the same amount of time and attention for all expressions is given; otherwise we view it as favoritism or prejudicial. If it offends, then diversity is thrown out the window and its banned. I wonder if we truly less disparaging or just less honest. :(

dannbetty read my blog view my photos
Aug 18, 2008 | 11:17 AM

Of course the schools are welcome into the churches. That is beacause the churches are much smarter than most of the educators. If the educators ever realize that a holiday was derived from a Holy Day, we will only have, annual 'timeouts' in the class rooms.

dannbetty read my blog view my photos
Aug 18, 2008 | 11:18 AM

Beacause -from the beatitudes of why for. or a typo.

right-moves read my blog
Aug 18, 2008 | 11:50 AM

Who cares!

sarcasticdragon
Aug 18, 2008 | 2:51 PM

One has nothing to do with the other.

The schools were in the churches for one reason and one reason only... To FORCE parents to actually take some responsibility for their own kids and get them to school on monday.

Free clothes, free backpacks, free supplies, free lunches, free breakfasts. We do everything for them and their kids the least the parents can do is get their kids up, dressed and to school on the first day.

Jimmy-42 read my blog
Aug 20, 2008 | 8:43 AM

Sarcasticdragon, you forgot free babysitting.

Drki read my blog
Aug 20, 2008 | 11:48 AM

I want to say I hate that relion is taken out of the schools. Winter bread is for CHRISTMAS and has been for many years and spring break if for EASTER. For the people who do not believe in God, you shouldn't get any paid off holidays for all the days we are off for relion. Why is it a few people don't want prayer in schools, so all kids have to do with out. We would probably have less violence and kinder children if we would bring Christ back in our schools.

dwheeler6201 read my blog view my photos
Aug 20, 2008 | 11:53 AM

I also wish that religion was back in the schools, I think that would be wonderful. Unfortunetly I don't think that is ever going to happen.

I just don't understand why it is so strickly enforced that the church can not come into the schools, but when the state goes into the church its ok. If the law goes one way, it should go both ways.

mystere read my blog view my photos
Aug 21, 2008 | 4:53 PM

The whole nation is seeing the results of the American Civil Liberties Usurpers. In their view, it's fine to usurp the freedom of worship, and the freedom of speech, when it is in favor of atheists, but when it goes in favor of those who believe in God, OH MY! The spit hits the fan! Tell the ACLU to pass their gas in their own places, and not in the people's faces!

dwheeler6201 read my blog view my photos
Aug 21, 2008 | 6:09 PM

I'm not an atheist. I would love to see prayer back in church. That is the whole point of my question.
How is this in favor of those who believe in God?
The State of Missouri (who now controls the city public schools) came into these churches to tell the parents to send their children to school. What would happen if the congregations of these churches went into the schools to tell the parents to send their children to church?

I would be absolutely thrilled to see the schools and churches working together, but it has to go both ways.

dwheeler6201 read my blog view my photos
Aug 21, 2008 | 6:09 PM

I'm not an atheist. I would love to see prayer back in church. That is the whole point of my question.
How is this in favor of those who believe in God?
The State of Missouri (who now controls the city public schools) came into these churches to tell the parents to send their children to school. What would happen if the congregations of these churches went into the schools to tell the parents to send their children to church?

I would be absolutely thrilled to see the schools and churches working together, but it has to go both ways.

mystere read my blog view my photos
Aug 22, 2008 | 12:23 AM

What I'm saying is that the ACLU tries to block the churches when they come into the schools to try helping out. It is very bad on the West Coast. If a church tries to help a public school, the ACLU shrieks and whines like crazy, then they go after the church that tries to help a struggling public school, and then they threaten the church with lawsuits. I hope that's not happening in Missouri. I would hope that the congregations of the churches that the State of Missouri went into would have the chance to go into the public schools to tell the parents to send their children to church. That would be thrilling and a good thing. I'm with you: I would be thrilled to see schools and churches working together too.

By the way, I work in the media, behind the scenes at a radio station in Southern California, KBRT AM 740. We have 2 sister stations in St. Louis: KJSL AM 630, and KSTL AM 690, Crawford Broadcasting Company. If you have ever listened to these 2 stations, you can figure out 90 percent of where I stand on these kind of issues.

littlebow2000 read my blog view my photos
Aug 25, 2008 | 7:22 PM

Separation of Church and State is clear in our Constitution. Under Amendments to the Constitution (Bill of Rights) Article I, Freedom of religion, speech, of the press, and right of petition.
James Madison wrote: "Religion is not within the purview of human government."
It was the Catholic advocates who in the 1960's pushed the issue that all public schools were Protestant and were unpalatable to them. Thus the United States Supreme Court ruled in 1962, in Engel v. Vitale, 370 U.S. 421, by Justice Hugo Black: "When the power and financial support of government is placed behind a particular religious belief, the indirect coercive pressure upon religious minorities to conform to the prevailing officially approved religion is plain... "the same history showed that many people lost their respect for any religion that had relied upon the support of government to spread its faith." Then in 1963 in Abington School Dist. v. Schempp, 374 U.S. 203 by Justice Tom C. Clark: "It is no defense to urge that the religious practices here may be relatively minor encroachments on the First Amendment. The breach of neutrality that is today a trickling stream may all too soon become a raging torrent; and in the words of Madison, "It is proper to take alarm at the first experiment on our liberties."
In 1947 Justice Hugo Black wrote this Majority Opinion in Everson v. Board of Education, 330 U.S. 1, "the First Amendment has erected a wall between church and state. That wall must be kept high and impregnable. We could not approve the slightest breach."

littlebow2000 read my blog view my photos
Aug 25, 2008 | 7:51 PM

Many people think that the Supreme Court ruling on Bible reading and prayer in school under Engel v. Vitale (1962) and Abington v. Schempp (1963) effectively drove God out of the schools is false. Bible study itself is not banned in schools, nor is the objective study of religion. Singing of anthems which include the composer's profession of faith in God is not affected, nor ceremonial references to God. In a concurring opinion, Justice Brennan indicated that the following activities would be constitutionally permissible: providing chaplains for the military and in penal institutions, exemption of clergy from military service, excusing children from school for religious holidays, and providing temporary use of public buildings for religious services when church facilities are unavailable because of and emergency.

mystere read my blog view my photos
Aug 26, 2008 | 9:28 AM

Keep a short leash on the ACLU to preserve your religious rights; they're itching to take them away right under your noses. I smell a bunch of rats up to no good, but at this time, I can't quite sense what their next political stunt is.

dwheeler6201 read my blog view my photos
Aug 26, 2008 | 10:28 AM

I understand all of this, I am not talking about the church in the school. I am talking about the school in the church. Why is that allowed?

imaappygrl read my blog
Aug 26, 2008 | 1:24 PM

I think kids do better in life brought up going to church I think prayer should be back in school

dwheeler6201 read my blog view my photos
Aug 26, 2008 | 1:38 PM

I agree imaappygrl, but how would you feel if you were sitting in church and the head of the city schools (which by the way are state run)got up in the pulpit and told you to send your children to school?

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dwheeler6201

The last couple of months I have come to realize how blessed I am. I recently received a promotion at work, our company is for some strange reason, flourishing in this economical crisis, I received good news on the results of my MRI. I have been having strange headaches which they have now decided are Occipital Migraines. I really am blessed, I am in good health, my children and grandchildren are in good health, I have a job (these days that is the best blessing), a home, good friends, and food to eat. I am thankful for all these blessings. I am not trying to sound like I am bragging, I am truly thankful!

Member Since: 6/23/2008