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dawgma

by dawgma08 from Salem, Illinois

Last Post 14 days, 3 hours Ago


Hey folks, another example of our basic freedoms being ripped completely from us!
3 suspended for not standing for Pledge of Allegiance

May 9, 2008

Three small-town eighth-graders in Minnesota were suspended by their principal for not standing Thursday morning for the Pledge of Allegiance, violating a district policy that the principal now says may soon be reworded to protect free speech rights.

"My son wasn't being defiant against America," said Kim Dahl, mother of one of the students, Brandt, who attends Dilworth-Glyndon-Felton Junior High School in northwestern Minnesota.

Brandt told the Forum newspaper in Fargo that Thursday's one-day in-school suspension, "was kind of dumb because I didn't do anything wrong. It should be the people's choice."

Kim Dahl said the "punishment didn't fit the crime. If they wanted to know why he didn't stand, they should've made him write a paper." She said her son has been declining to stand all school year, offered no reason for sitting and was not obligated to explain his actions.

The school's handbook says all students are required to stand but are not required to recite the pledge. The same is true for all four schools in the district, a school official said.

"These three [students] didn't, and they got caught," said Mel Olson, the district's community education director. He said he backs the punishment, "being a veteran and a United States of America citizen, absolutely." Olson served in the Marines in Japan during the Vietnam War.

The head of the Minnesota American Civil Liberties Union said that the school's actions against the students are unconstitutional, and his office informed the district of that today in a strongly worded letter.

"The school can't do that; that's illegal," said Chuck Samuelson, the civil liberties group's executive director. "Wow."

Samuelson said that numerous U.S. Supreme Court rulings dating to the 1940s say in "well-settled constitutional law" that "students who refuse to participate in the pledge cannot be punished for refusing to participate."

Samuelson said he's surprised that any public school district would have such a pledge requirement, given that state law allows for students and teachers to decide not to participate. Most states have the same "opt-out" provision.

In St. Paul, said district spokesman Howie Padilla, "Students can respectfully not participate in the Pledge of Allegiance." Minneapolis schools treat pledge participation the same way.

Colleen Houglum, the principal who suspended the three, acknowledged in a statement late this morning that the policy requirement that " 'all students will stand' may need to be modified to address the protection of the individual's form of expression."

Kim Dahl said Houglum called her this morning and informed her of the possible accommodation. "I think they are handling it quite professionally," Kim Dahl said, adding that Houglum told her that school officials "are taking some steps to take the [suspensions] off their records."

That possible shift was met with disappointment from Olson. While he said he'll fall in line with whatever change may occur, "I still have my beliefs."

Earlier today, Olson said that a "very nice announcement" was made at the start of the junior high school day reminding the students that they must stand for the pledge.

Houglum said that all students this morning were "involved in some fashion" during the pledge, adding that no additional suspensions were needed.

However, the family of 14-year-old Bishop Edens told the Forum that he was suspended from school today (Friday) because he wouldn't stand for the pledge, but he was quickly invited back once Houglum said a policy change might be needed. Edens had said Thursday that he would sit in support of the other three. "Our social studies teacher led the pledge, and that was kind of a nice change of pace," Houglum said.

Kim Dahl asked Brandt why he has been remained seated all school year, but "he didn't have an answer ... he doesn't get in trouble; he's just a normal 13-year-old."

As for today, she told Brandt to take his cell phone with him to school and text her should he run into trouble again. "I said you should probably just stand if you're not protesting something."

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Member Comments Total Comments: 35
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mr_wildflower read my blog view my photos
May 10, 2008 | 7:35 AM

I know of two girls in our district that leave the building during the pledge because of religious beliefs.....

I'm sure there is more to this story and will come out later......

dawgma08 read my blog
May 10, 2008 | 7:42 AM

Saying the pledge while "saluting" a flag is nothing more different than what some used to yell, "Seig heil!"

mechany144 read my blog view my photos
May 10, 2008 | 8:51 AM

Being forced to do it would be the same. We have no laws that require a person to stand and place their hands over the heart. That is the difference. In Germany at that time, if you did not salute Hitler and the country you could be executed. We can't.
The kids should not have been punished at all though. It is their choice wether to stand and recite the Pledge.
I think they are wrong for not doing it, but it is their right not to.

dawgma08 read my blog
May 10, 2008 | 8:53 AM

Technically, US Code says that you "should" place your hand over your heart and remove your "headdress." However, there are no penalties for breaking said "law."

FREEDOMFREE read my blog view my photos
May 10, 2008 | 11:44 AM

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Jaydog read my blog
May 10, 2008 | 7:15 PM

we were taught to stand because you needed to have respect for those words because people died protecting what they stood for, and you did not diminish that in any way, shape or form, but if we sqaush what those words stand for then it diminishes us all, and those students should have their freedom to choose.

Biker2Max read my blog
May 10, 2008 | 7:51 PM

We have a constitutional right not to pledge. It is not mandatory nor should it be. I agree everyone should show respect and stand for the pledge but we still have choices in America.

Jaydog read my blog
May 10, 2008 | 8:40 PM

I don't know why they just don't explain to the kids what the flag and the pledge stand for and then give them the choice,instead of immediately going off the deep end and telling them they were wrong and punishing them,what kind of message does that send,maybe we should reducate the educators.

PSylvester20 read my blog
May 10, 2008 | 10:37 PM

Just another example of school administrators drunk on what little power they have. It's self-defeating to punish someone for not standing to honor the ideas of freedom and liberty. My guess is these kids were being a little rebellious and disrespectful, like kids that age will do. As adults, we have an obligation to rise above such petty behavior and lead by example.

becker read my blog
May 11, 2008 | 6:59 AM

I can say, that I am lucky enough, not to know anyone that would not stand and say the Pledge

We-are-the-world read my blog
May 11, 2008 | 8:11 AM

I don't care one way or another.
theses kids are being punish so what.
They will probably do something far greater that is wrong in the future and not get caught. its call reciprocity.

Have a blessed day.

AnswerMan read my blog
May 11, 2008 | 8:52 AM

I believe we have larger problems than not acknowledging the Pledge. This is a very small problem (if you call it that) that needs no attention from lawmakers.

I believe this is a parenting issue while the large problems maybe our lawmakers need to wake up and fix!

frenchmills read my blog view my photos
May 11, 2008 | 8:54 AM

We all should defend the right to free speech, to these students choosing not to participate.

People died so that they could have that right. Those who died should not have died in vain.

The students have the right not to participate.

That is one of the principles our country is built upon.

SeniorCitizen view my photos
May 11, 2008 | 9:25 AM

In my day we were always taught to show respect for our the older people in our family as they were addressed as aunt Mary, uncle Joe, grandma, grandpa, and it was yes-mam and no-mam and also to show respect for our country, of course that was when the parents cared what the kids were doing.

MissDaisy read my blog view my photos
May 11, 2008 | 2:36 PM

That's the bottom line.. respect. I love and respect my country. Sure, I don't have to conform.. I have rights... but I respect those who made my rights possible.

Today in school, go ahead, do your own thing, if you get in trouble.. call me (a parent will tell their child), I'll bail you out. When I was a secretary, a child got in trouble, (cell phones weren't allowed but he had one, called Mom) Mom called me asking directions to the school. Hmm I didn't see her at open house.

Things get out of hand when there are no rules.. because we all know rules are made to be broken.

FREEDOMFREE read my blog view my photos
May 11, 2008 | 3:17 PM

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IS WHAT YOU SEE ,

STANDING TOO , HISTORY ,

I JUST CANT SEE , TODAY FOR FREE ,

SO THINK OF FREEDOM , WHILE YOUR FREE ,

IF YOU THINK , YOU ARE FREE ,

KEEP THINKING , OF FREEDOMFREE .

Barbara read my blog
May 11, 2008 | 3:26 PM

I really don't care if they stand up or not it is their own choice. We waste too much time talking about s### that really has no importance. Good day.

SeniorCitizen view my photos
May 11, 2008 | 4:21 PM

You are allowed to make your own choice but if you do not follow the rules then do not cry when you are punished for your actions. Kids today want to push the system to see how far they can go and then they try to make a issue when they do not get their way. If you can not follow rules you will NEVER BE ABLE TO HOLD A JOB. You can not tell your boss - I am not going to do that because I do not want to. Military Service will also kick you out if you can not follow instructions. If they can not understand and follow rules, regulations and the laws then suffer the consequences.

Jaydog read my blog
May 11, 2008 | 6:59 PM

Not to get off the subject, but when I got to work this morning the flag that was flying on the pole had been torn down by the wind, it was laying on the ground sopping wet, what are the procedures for the flag, when something like this happens?

Jimmy-42 read my blog
May 12, 2008 | 8:07 AM

I'd say the kids rights might have been violated, if they're forced to stay in a country to which they doesn't wish to pledge their allegiance. That's another difference between the United States and World War II era Germany. You're free to leave if you don't like the country.

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dawgma08

I am the anti-shy! I say things exactly how I see them and it is impossible for me to sugar coat things. I have been called an a-hole on a regular basis the past 10 years or so. Keeping things brutally honest is the only route to go, in my opinion. So what's up? ;^)

Member Since: 2/7/2008