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by WebsterGroves from Webster Groves

Last Post 17 hours Ago


Wow...Is this America?

An 80-year-old church deacon was removed from the Smith Haven Mall yesterday in a wheelchair and arrested by police for refusing to remove a T-shirt protesting the Iraq War.

Police said that Don Zirkel, of Bethpage, was disturbing shoppers at the Lake Grove mall with his T-shirt, which had what they described as "graphic anti-war images." Zirkel, a deacon at Our Lady of the Miraculous Medal in Wyandanch, said his shirt had the death tolls of American military personnel and Iraqis - 4,000 and 1 million - and the words "Dead" and "Enough." The shirt also has three blotches resembling blood splatters.

Police said in a release last night that Zirkel was handing out anti-war pamphlets to mallgoers and that mall security told him to stop and turn his shirt inside out. Zirkel refused to turn his shirt inside out and wouldn't leave, police said. Security placed him on "civilian arrest" and called police. When police arrived, Zirkel passively resisted attempts to bring him to a police car, the release said.

So some mall cops didn't think he should be allowed to peaceably protest the war so they forcibly removed him. In my understanding of the legal implications, the Supreme Court has upheld that malls are private property and they are within their legal rights to do this. However, there are arguments that this is the proverbial "public square" and Zirkel was practicing free speech.

There will be some knee jerk reactions saying this man "doesn't support the troops". This is a specious argument. The troops didn't send themselves there and it is indeed "supporting the troops" to not want them to die for lies.

And, really, arresting people because we disagree with their political views? Is that really the kind of country we want to live in? That sounds more like Iraq than the USA.

Here is some background on why malls are allowed to limit freedom of speech from 5 years ago:
Last week, 61-year-old Stephen Downs was arrested for refusing to remove a T-shirt with the words "Peace on Earth" and "Give Peace a Chance" in a shopping mall in Albany, N.Y. Why don't citizens have the same free speech rights in shopping centers that they do on city streets and parks..

Because malls are private property, and our constitutional rights are triggered only when the government (and not a private citizen) tries to limit our freedoms. As malls expand to include outdoor boulevards, movie theaters, and coffee houses, many contend that we should have free expression rights in these "private forums." Their argument is that malls play the same role city streets and town squares once played in our democracy.

The first cases asserting free speech rights in privately owned shopping centers were successful. In the 1946 case of Marsh v. Alabama, the Supreme Court held that the business district of a privately owned "company town" was the same as a public street for First Amendment purposes, finding that "the more an owner, for his advantage, opens up his property for use by the public in general, the more do his rights become circumscribed by the statutory and constitutional rights of those who use it." A 1968 case—Amalgamated Food Employees Union v. Logan Valley Plaza—held that a privately owned mall was the "functional equivalent" of the business district in Marsh.
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dannbetty read my blog view my photos
Mar 31, 2008 | 11:50 AM

The same law that keeps the 'panhandlers' out of the malls, keeps out what could be considered leagal protests.
Had he sought permission? No, he wouldn't have gotten it, either. But he doesn't have permission to put a sign in my yard either, am I limiting his free speech?
It is private property, and as a citizen of some stature and education he knows this.

WebsterGroves read my blog view my photos
Mar 31, 2008 | 2:27 PM

Dan -
Do you believe people should have to have their t-shirts "approved" before they go spend money in the mall? He wasn't arrested for the pamphlets - he was asked to stop and he did. He was arrested because he refused to take his t-shirt off or turn it inside out.

right-moves read my blog
Mar 31, 2008 | 10:19 PM

Don't you have anything better to do?

WebsterGroves read my blog view my photos
Apr 1, 2008 | 3:21 PM

Hey, right-moves. Do you have anything to add to the discussion? Or is your point that people you disagree with shouldn't blog?

kdubken read my blog
Apr 3, 2008 | 10:57 AM

Anyone should have enough respect for another person's property to leave it when asked.It should not take a supreme court or act of congress to remove them if necessary;Simple person to person respect.--------------------A company has a large investment in a mall.They provide a safe.pleasent,comfortable place to attract customers,and,advertize their products.They should not have to compete in their own space with people advertizeing political views.

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WebsterGroves

Jingoism is not patriotism.

Member Since: 11/30/2006