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by STLFF12 from St. Louis City

Last Post 176 days, 7 hours Ago


Another Saga For the St. Louis Fire Department
Aug 31, 2007 | 2:19 PM
Category: News
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Nearly 1,500 possible candidates who applied for the St. Louis Fire Department and tested in June, found out via mail this week that the test they took has been thrown out.

The city was going to take the top 400 or so test takers to go on to the physical aspect of testing before going on to interviews and beginning the process of being hired and going through the academy. Somehow though, not even 400 people passed???

Tests for cities the size of STL and larger usually grow larger crowds because of the size of the department and their "Action" fires/rescues/etc. So many people traveled from all over the country to take this test and for a job for a city in turmoil.

This is just another jab to the already staggering department who has suffered blows from the delay of promotions of over 20+ command positions.

The fire department has been short staffed for years, and without the promotions there have been other holes. And if the promotions go through in a short period of time, there will even be more shortages as the candidates who passed this written test will not be hired since the test has now been thrown out and the last recruit pool has been scrubbed.

Mind you as well that the test which was given had a math section which was at a 3rd to 4th grade level. The test cost city tax payers close to $75,000 dollars, just to be tossed out.  Also, the testing company has never had to throw a test out for a city the size of ours, as there are always plenty of people who pass.

There are already groups of test takers who are obtaining lawyers and preparing for a legal fight. Even if 400 didnt pass, which doesn't sound correct, the top scoreres need to be hired so that there are newly trained, highly qualified firefighters are hired.

Citizens of the city need to call their aldermen and the mayors office and let your voices be heard. Your safety is at risk.

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Member Comments Total Comments: 21
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StateStreetHeaven
Aug 31, 2007 | 7:58 PM

Unbelievable. What the hell happened to that department. I'm sure this was an act on the city's part to thwart the lawsuit that was sure to follow when the "numbers" didn't come out right. So this was 75k, and the last number I heard on the Captains test fiasco was 500k, jeez, that money could have kept the firehouses they close routinely opened for quite a while.
mancillas read my blog
Sep 1, 2007 | 2:14 AM

Political issue. They have to post to hire someone...Even though they already knew who was going to get this position. They still have to allow others a chance. I see this happen all over the place.

I knew the "hiring authority" and applied for a buyer position at a large St. Louis Company. I was told "behind the scenes" that I had "aced" the test, however, they had to hire an African American to fulfill their requirements. This position was not filled until several weeks after I had applied.. Need I say more?
Fireman33 read my blog view my photos
Sep 2, 2007 | 5:25 AM

StateStreetHeaven Opined: Unbelievable. What the hell happened to that department? Two words and one sentence. Sherman George. Fire Fighters for Racial Equality(F.I.R.E)and spineless People that want to show that their not a bigot or racist!!!

Anyone want to argue that? please do me a great favor, chime in!

FF33
Fireman33 read my blog view my photos
Sep 2, 2007 | 5:32 AM

mancillas opined: "Political issue. They have to post to hire someone...Even though they already knew who was going to get this position. They still have to allow others a chance."

I kinda disagree with that! The only people that have a edge with the job or jobs in the city of St. Louis are present employees!
they have a separate list then of those who are on the street so to speak. If you see or hear of Fathers sons becoming FF's its because their children grownup with that knowledge of whats needed to become a FF. (no collusion)

FF33
Cutter read my blog
Sep 2, 2007 | 11:08 AM

The late , great city of ST,Louis . May she rest in piece .
St, Louis is goverend by greed , corruption and stupidity .
mrmgrady read my blog view my photos
Sep 2, 2007 | 3:25 PM

This new problem seems to focus itself on the Director of Personnel's Office and not the Fire Department itself. It makes me question all the more about the Promotions Test provided by the Department of Personnel! There should be an independent investigation of the matter asap!
Fireman33 read my blog view my photos
Sep 2, 2007 | 4:05 PM

Mr grady

I generally don't question people in their opinion in how they derive in their opinion, but something is really bothing me.
Do you believe that AA people fail because they are held back based on their color of their skin? or is it they fail because they don't put forth a effort to advance and believe its hopeless for them to make the effort?

FF33
mrmgrady read my blog view my photos
Sep 2, 2007 | 4:36 PM

FF33,

Most African-American people struggle with life, but there are many who are successful! We can look at Dr. Ben Carson, pediatric neurosurgeon (I believe he is from Detroit) and see that despite his difficulties, he became very successful. http://www.achievement.org/autodoc/page/car1bio-1
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benjamin_Carson

Or we can look at Jeffrey Lynn Hall, Jr. who was a student at Soldan International Studies High School and was accepted into Harvard University. Despite his difficulties, he was also successful.

Each child has the ability to be successful, it is just nurturing and supporting them to that point in their lives.
STLFF12 read my blog
Sep 2, 2007 | 4:45 PM

http://www.ergometricsonline.com/ftt/

This is where you will get details onthe test. The dept. of personnel picked out this test. It is used all over the country for hiring of firefighters. YOU HAVE TO BE A QUICK THINKER!!! That is what we do in the fire service and why have a dummied down test for a job where you make split second decisons.

F.I.R.E. didn't want the test and sent a letter stating the same.

On the scantron sheet there was an optional demographic section that they encouraged everyone to complete. Which of course there was a race question.

Need I say more.
Fireman33 read my blog view my photos
Sep 3, 2007 | 7:06 AM

I have always said "Race Trumps everything"
For all the white people that read this and other blogs about whats happening in the St. Louis FD, its about, and continues to be a Jobs program for AA. They George & F.I.R.E Don't care if your able to do the job. They just want Brown bodies in that dept. They are under the misconception that you can train a dummy to do that job!! Well people! I'm telling ya you can't. That dept is full of Trash haulers, tree trimmers water dept rejects that took the test and became fireman because City Employees are on a differant list. When you have a incompetent Socially & Racially promoted Chief you are heading for a disaster.

FF33
mrmgrady read my blog view my photos
Sep 3, 2007 | 8:51 AM

STLFF12,

I was not impressed with the website. First, any standardized test needs to be VALID, meaning that it needs to measure what it intends to measure; Second, it needs to be RELIABLE, meaning that it is consistent over different groups of people at various times; Third, it needs to be FREE FROM BIAS, meaning that the test would measure the same between different demographics. This is most important, and yet, most difficult. Standardized Tests have built-in biases based on the test creator's own demographics.
Fireman33 read my blog view my photos
Sep 3, 2007 | 9:36 AM

The answer Mr Grady

Have those who have a trouble with these type of test changed their way of living. If you think an Alley apple is a Brick, then you have a problem. If you think windows are something that needs to broken, you have a problem. If you think that wareing your pants below your waist, you have a problem. if you think that the more women(children) you impregnate makes you a man, you have a problem.


FF33
mrmgrady read my blog view my photos
Sep 3, 2007 | 9:52 AM

FF33,

You are off-topic. The test provided has to be "tested" in order to be "usable." It has nothing to do with race (although the bias issue does come into play).
da_opposition read my blog view my photos
Sep 3, 2007 | 12:38 PM

Fireman33 I suggest you come out of retirement and do something. As far as I can tell you're doing nothing here. All the ASSumptions u make still don't mount to a bowl of beans. You can't run the fire department nor none of your cronies so stop trying. Do something.....
cajundon read my blog
Sep 3, 2007 | 12:55 PM

I say -- have George and F.I.R.E. make out the test and send it to the second grade at the eelmentary school. If they can pass it USE IT TO TEST THE FIREFIGHTERS
cajundon read my blog
Sep 3, 2007 | 12:58 PM

Who cares if our city is being ruined by politics.Competency has no place in government and apparantly neither the fire delpartment
mrmgrady read my blog view my photos
Sep 3, 2007 | 2:03 PM

There are reputable organizations as well as university deparments that provide excellent entrance exams as well as promotions testing. UMSL has an excellent Industrial/Organizational Psychology program and some of the professors do work as consultants to major corporations on hiring and promotions in those corporations.
truth713 read my blog
Sep 3, 2007 | 7:03 PM

This needs NATIONAL attention. You can ask the State government to intercede but the State government is afraid to act because of the Mayor's clout(Bill DeWitt).When a major city like St. Louis is in peril, a news program like 60 minutes needs to be apprised of Chief George's promotion gridlock. Maybe if a St. Louis firefighter or 2 would visit CBS in New York with this story some pressure could be brought to bear on City Hall.truth713
Fireman33 read my blog view my photos
Sep 3, 2007 | 7:50 PM

Truth713

That is a great idea!!!
But, as with any great Idea the down side will be the liberals that run CBS would make this into a lynching party of George by the white FF and White Mayor.
With all the problems in this country with the inability of AA to have Good leadership, this would just be a smack in the face of AA and CBS won't do anything that would bring bad light to an AA. Unless! he/she was a Republican in the Bush Administration.

FF33
Fireman33 read my blog view my photos
Sep 3, 2007 | 7:53 PM

Mr Grady

Your a smart man. your much more educated then I.
Can't you see what's going on here?
Its not about getting the best FF's its about getting Black men/women FF...... that's it nothing more.

FF33
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STLFF12

Im a local Firefighter, who has grown up in St. Louis. I lived and worked in the city for a number of years. I love to do just about anything, especially helping others. I work hard, don't get paid the best, but I get food on the table. It's about helping the fellow person. And I fight for equality of the majority.

Member Since: 4/2/2007


 

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